Image from zach_manchester
In my last post I discussed some of the basic reasons that glasses are so expensive – cross subsidisation of the services offered by the glasses themselves (ie, they don’t charge the true cost for eye tests, but much more for the glasses). Also rents, expensive equipment, etc.
To try and stop people from going online to buy glasses many opticians will resist giving you your Pupillary Distance (This is, as it sounds, the distance between your pupils. I’ll write another blog post on this topic soon, and will be having a discussion with our Senior Optician about PDs which I’ll put up as a podcast).
To give you an idea of what many opticians feel about you, their customers, and the services that we and they provide, it can be worth eavesdropping on some of their conversations.
Optiboard is a forum for americans in the optical trade. There have been many threads on there about the online trade, and PD measurements.
Here is one about PD measurements: which many opticians are reluctant to give out.
“Online eyeglasses appeal to the cheapest and most moronic people out there. If I lose a few drooling idiots with no money to the online crowd, I’m not sure I even care.”
“Tell them to take their own. If they feel they do not need us, they they can do it themselves (note, I am no longer in the industry, so I can make statements like that).”
“My policy would (I haven’t been asked yet) No PD, period!”
“My policy is no PD, period.”
One member of the board tried to point out that by providing a service of measuring PDs etc, it could actually be a useful way of keeping customers returning to him, but he was in a very small minority being shouted down by the others who think that everyone who orders online is a moron, and any glasses bought online will be awful and won’t work.
We’ve had over 100,000 happy customers, and made over 200,000 pairs of glasses. If they didn’t work, we’d have been out of business a long time ago.
The industry is changing, and we’re part of that change. I wish the industry would realise that we’re not out to destroy anything, we’re just about giving a better deal. People, including myself, will still buy from the highstreet, and online. I buy books from amazon, my local book shop, and waterstones. I’ll buy glasses online, from the big chains, and from independant opticians (more of which in another post).
The difference is that I have 10 pairs of glasses, Two are from high street opticians, and are nearly double the cost of all the other 8 bought on-line put together!
Those who think patients are morons do no deserve to be in buisness,and im sure the great majority of Opticians dont think like that.Over the 24 years that i have been in the buiness i have seen a great many changes, deregulation (which without glasses direct would not exist),it was doom and gloom and the end of the world back then but, hey we are still here.The next big thing to hit the industry was Specsavers and did it ever cause a rumpus to the long established satus quo but again we are all still here.
And so to the present and internet retailers is it good or bad ?
Showing how little things cost is one way of doing buisness telling people what Opticians may or may not think of the patients they see is another, does it help tarring us all with the same brush as you are and have to be included in the same vein. Time will tell this particular story its own way!!!!
Glenn,
You’re right that there are of course a whole spectrum of views, and not all opticians think the same way. I’m sorry if you feel that you, and others who think like you, feel that you’ve been tarred with an unfair brush by my post.
However, it is the case that the vast majority view on the optiboard forum was to withhold the PD from customers, or supply it in inches, to make it more difficult for someone to take their prescription elsewhere.
I picked out the ‘moron’ comment as it particularly angered me, and the person who wrote it was a very vocal member of the forum.
I agree with you that I don’t think the internet is the end of independent opticians, but I do think it could herald a new way of thinking about glasses and a change in the market overall – which could see everyone winning, both customers and businesses.
Anyone who calls a potential customer, or indeed anyone a “moron” for exercising their right to shop around and get the best service and price does not deserve to be in business. Hopefully they will not be for long.
I run two businesses, and if I started losing customers, it is my fault for not keeping up with market trends, or overcharging and / or not providing a good service.
Well done for providing this service, my glasses have not arrived yet (only ordered today!), but if the service is as good and professional as this website, I will certainly become a regular customer. The equivalent would have cost over £230 in my local store so that’s a saving of nearly £100 on my main use pair!
I am in the trade very very long time and i know many things about it but i would never make any indecent comments about anyone. people spend millions of £££ online doing studpid things(not pointing out) if they buy glasses whats the big deal.
if you have a standered presciption, i say, you can just pick any 2nd hand fram get lenses for 20p and grind them and wack them into the frame put them on everything will be cushty. dont bother about any tech stuff and jargons.
BUT if you have a complex prescripton, for God sake dont take risk. see a qualified person not even “optical assitant” thing.
i tell you why!!!
if they mess up with you PD, your binacular vision is messed up because of prismatic effect. once the damage is done there is no way you could be backed track.
wrong hight means you will develop a habit of keeping you head too high or low while you are walking or working which will mess up your personality.
wrong lens collection will put extra weight on you nose and will possibly leave a nasty mark on your nose.
similarly there are seveal damages you could do to yourself if you dont pay proper attention.
i am not against online sale but if they send someone round who is qualified and know his job then there is no harm in buying glasses online. if not than?????????????
I am in the trade very very long time and i know many things about it but i would never make any indecent comments about anyone. people spend millions of £££ online doing studpid things(not pointing out) if they buy glasses whats the big deal.
if you have a standered presciption, i say, you can just pick any 2nd hand fram get lenses for 20p and grind them and wack them into the frame put them on everything will be cushty. dont bother about any tech stuff and jargons.
BUT if you have a complex prescripton, for God sake dont take risk. see a qualified person not even “optical assitant” thing.
i tell you why!!!
if they mess up with you PD, your binacular vision is messed up because of prismatic effect. once the damage is done there is no way you could be backed track.
wrong hight means you will develop a habit of keeping you head too high or low while you are walking or working which will mess up your personality.
wrong lens collection will put extra weight on you nose and will possibly leave a nasty mark on your nose.
similarly there are seveal damages you could do to yourself if you dont pay proper attention.
i am not against online sale but if they send someone round who is qualified and know his job then there is no harm in buying glasses online. if not than?????????????
I am a dispensing optician with some 10+ years experience. Of course i do not think anyone is a “moron” for shopping online, If i didnt work in the industry i would probably do the same (i say this with slightly gritted teeth) I wouldn’t provide a PD measurement even for a small fee for 2 main reasons. firstly if i do provide a measurement i am legally responsible for it, why would i put myself in that position for very little gain? Also i know that part of the cost of your glasses is to cover the cost of the premises etc, if glasses direct or any other online retailer want this measurment they should provide the means to take them themselves and accept responsibility for it also, rather than passing this onto either another optician or even the customer themselves.
I have come across patients with incorrectly measured glasses on two occasions (embarrasingly these were both made by high street opticians) on both occasions, one still ongoing, it took several years to correct the problem by gradually moving the centres closer to where they should have been. The patients did not notice any problems initially with theyre “wrong” specs but were getting double vision without them. I feel that this is a problem that will become more prevalant in the future unless the large numbers of individuals buying glasses online start to get accurate PD’s. I have seen PD’s in adults range from 50-82mm so know that an “average” really is’nt going to work for even the majority in the long term.
could i also point out that it may not have been your intention to “tar everyone with the same brush” but youre article is entitled “PD’s and the real views of opticians” this does imply that opticians in general feel this way which I am sure is not true.
Matthew,
Thanks for your comments.
Firstly, the argument about liability is one we hear often from opticians and is completely bogus. We have never, do never, and will never claim anyone other than us is responsible for a pair of glasses that we produce. It’s a totally nonsense argument.
The only time we’d ever go back to an optician is if it turns out that measurements they have provided are wrong in some way. (ie, a mistake in the prescription).
Your example about wrong PDs are, you admit, both by high street opticians…so is the lesson there that PDs can go wrong, or that the high street isn’t any better? Sorry, cheap shot ;¬)
Again, you give the argument that you’re worried about the nation’s eye health because they won’t be using accurate PDs, yet in the same breath you also say you won’t give out an accurate PD to people intent on buying online, even if they’re willing to pay.
As far as the tarring with a single brush goes, I said in a previous reply “It is the case that the vast majority view on the optiboard forum was to withhold the PD from customers, or supply it in inches, to make it more difficult for someone to take their prescription elsewhere.” Plus, you are witholding the PD from customers, to try and make it more difficult for them to buy online, in which case you share the basic views of the people above.(Although I can see that you have a lot more respect for customers than the people quoted in the article do)
Here’s a response from one of our Dispensing Opticians:
“The instances of returned glasses as a result of centration are very few. For each one we offer the customer the choice of a full refund, a home visit, measuring their PD from own glasses, or returning to their optician to request their PD.
If using an average PD results in a non-tolerance, we take responsibility so the customer can shop in confidence. For high powered lenses and multifocals, we insist on a measured PD, and if it is inconvenient or impossible for us to obtain one we cannot proceed with the order.
Also, it is very straight forward for customers to request full copies of their optical records, including orders, through the Freedom of Information Act. Their PD will be included in some part of their records.”
I’m not sure what benefits i would have by not measuring PD, as it would catch up to me at some point and i would ruin my excellent reputation.
As an optometrist i would not object from people buying online, but also don’t think all opticians would be this irresponsible to not measure PD and give a complete service.
All i can say is that i hope that american forum and its comments are very few and far between!